There has been much hullabaloo around of late on this issue. And thought I will add to this
confusion, without adding much to it :). Had a nice conversation with a colleague of mine
today and a few points came out quite nice and clear.
Let's not focus on the caste based politics at this point. Rather let's focus on a few points with examples that this reservation can or cannot do for our country.
My personal view is reservation is going to be beneficial for a larger mass of India in the longer run. A natural question that would appear in the minds of one reading this passage is how. The merit we are talking about dear friend, believe me does not arise out of nowhere. Mostly we see people excelling in fields where their ancestors have shown excellence, be it academia or business. The fact that Brahminical class, however minuscule they might be when it comes to headcount, is ruling the roost everywhere does not necessarily point to the fact that they are the most 'meritorious' lot. Let their sons plough the field and the excellence will show. Knowledge and therefore 'knowledge based merit' is an accrual process that gradually increases with time, over era...down the generations. Had it not been for our knowledge in English language for past two or three generations, we would not have been in a position to outperform China today in the services outsourcing business. The people we are talking about has been deprived of this 'knowledge' for a period well enough to justify any effort on our part to uplift their status.
The next question that's being talked about often is why not get to the root of the problem and reform primary education. *grin* Face it, we know that we won't bring in more competitors to ourselves by restricting it to the 'reform in primary education'. When a child at the age of 12 comes back from the firecracker making factory and knows that he is the only one who can fend for the entire family, look after his ailing mother and rear up his siblings, seldom does he think of flipping through the pages of that book, that the government run free school has provided him with. Look from their point of view and face it that all we are trying to do is keep the seats implicitly reserved to ourselves, who by natural choice, by thousand years of bureaucracy have kept the merit to themselves.
I personally happen to be a 'so-called' software engineer who sees himself and people around doing nothing the lesser privileged citizens would not have been able to perform with some additional grooming. End of the day money speaks and money is all that secures the well being of the future generation. Let all share the pie for there to be fair distribution.
The only important point that came up was the criticality of medical faculty and how would that degrade should we think about reservation. A few points to that
1) Accepted that the students toil harder and harder to get through the medical entrance examination. No disrespect intended. But, at the doorstep of that medical school these young eager minds are just at the beginning of the process of being shaped into a promising doctor of tomorrow. If the medical schools cannot shape them up, what use is five years of rigorous education. Why not get the medical practitioner's stamp right after the entrance examination itself ?! Time the schools lived upto their expectation and not just wait for creme-de-la-creme to be waiting at the gate.
2) Most of the medical students passing out of the schools, start private practice or go abroad, and quite justifiedly so. If we open the door to the elite schools to entire india, who knows, we might just be having more people going back to their native place, where people die of a minor influenza ? Point is we will just be having more people having the required knowledge to serve people.
All said and done, this will remain a silent personal viewpoint. If it made you think even for once, is all I was looking for.
Signing off...
10 comments:
nice post jkl:)
My two cents is - Do you really believe that this *caste* based reservation going to do any help to the actual so called OBC's of India (that is, people under the line?) Finally, it will be fruitful to only few urban heads, whom by no means you can recognize anyway diffn from u; except the *caste* factor.
2ly, doubling the sits of any college or univ. is utter bullshit! if u ve so much money actually to double/triple sits either spend in primary education or spend in quality research rather than manufacturing million ignorant *software engg* .
LOLz..... i c more *well-fed* *ignorant* 'so-called' sw engineerz doing a lot good for them n their family n india (they sweep a lot of foreign currency into indian economy remember ?) than idling around for the lack of infrastructure that manufacturez them !
u talked of the brahmin legacy, well look at this probably this will make u know the reality:
in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm
I am no brahmin... I am supposed to be an OBC... am I really backward?... I don't think so. I've had a good education, I am making handsome money. I can't be backward and so can't be those who are actually raising their voice againt the anti-reservationists.
If you can raise voice, u are not oppressed.
Affirmative action, yes I am on for it. I know of a coaching institute in bihar which gives IIT JEE coaching for free to those who can't afford it... 11 out of 28 qualified students (batch strength is 30) are OBCs.
You talk of a child labour who can't go to school... tell me how wud he manage to prepare for IIT-JEE/CAT and then avail reservation.
I am on for Affirmative action.. but please not in form of reservation. I don't want to feel like a 2nd class citizen.
You need to read the book by Arun Shourie titled "Falling Over Backwardness" to gain a broader picture of this whole episode.
Hi neeraj, nice to meet u. First, lemme thnk u for the references you provided. And a few great points on tht child labour not making it to iit/cat or the fact tht not much help would ease his way of life. accepted.
I probably should make a few points clearer - a few things i ve observed.
1) In our country (and possibly everywhere) there is a natural human tendency (...n thts subjective) to do good for 'own people' - people u ve grew up amongst - is a very strong instinctive urge. Point is anyone else cant do good for oneself in the longer run ... but one might need a push. More privileged Indians should pave the way for the not-so-privileged ones <- the actio n points u mentioned in ur comment, aptly so.
2) I personally had a loong conversation with myself before I logged this controversial post. Should it be 'caste-based' or 'financial status based' was the prime concern. But you dont have look back more than a 150 years probably. Think of a remote village in India, where the zamindar's son goes to the city to be 'english-literate' <- this to me seemed to have trickled down for long enough to put an end to it. It's there. Still there. It might sound a caste based discrimination right at this point - but let a few centuries pass and the menace will be gone forever. We need to initiate.
3) There are two kind of people - the ones who need no push and can stand on their own. I have seen a few friends who for their self-belief and self-esteem have come to engineering college through the normal channel. I salute them. I salute their self-belief. But there are people who with a little push can do the same.
4) I am not for caste-based discrimination <- self help is the best help. A few generations of 'upliftment' as was suggested by Ambedkar will bring a system in place that's auto-corrective. It's time to ramp that up, than abolish the same. Last decade have seen millions getting into service sector (some have entered the trajectory only because of wealthy parents) face it. I ve seen meritorious people getting lost in the crowd because their parents could not afford it. 50 years is not long enough a time to curb thousands years of menace is my two pence on it.
Lastly, I admit not having read Shourie's book. I will. Would request you to leaf the pages of 'rationality and freedom' by amartya sen and 'fortune at the bottom of the pyramid' by ck prahalad if possible. And again this was more of my personal viewpoint - something that I have felt myself from heart. I may be wrong. No offence to anyone intended.
Also, something vital that I ve missed out is how the auto-corrective system will work. If you push someone from this generation into higher education and job -> the next generation wont have to struggle for primary education. It will be taken care of as a natural outcome.
Hi there,
I must say that I respect your feelings. Let me respond to all ur points one by one.
1) Human tendency(in general) is opposite to what you mentioned, in fact it is true with all the organisms. We live for survival, maybe at the cost of others. One shouldn't think like this but m very sorry to say it is common. The backwards of today and forwards of yesterday are no different.
2) For this my question would be what do you want to achieve? Some 5000 (maybe more) different groups of people residing in same country or one common kind of indian citizen.
Casteism in india has long prevailed I agree but it was fading away, there are numerous references of written admittance of this fact in 1931. This was the reason why Census 1931 can't be claimed to be accurately based on caste. Inter-caste marriages, shuffling of ancestral jobs, fading of caste based discrimination was all happening. Backwards were coming out and doing better and respectful jobs, forwards were also doing the jobs normally done by backwards. But after reservation started this improvement has come to a halt. Now castes want to be included as backwards. Now the era of reverse discrimination has started, General category and reserved category students live in their own groups in colleges, general category students look at the res. ones as a bunch of 2nd class low performing students.
We need to initiate affirmative action i agree but shunning aside the caste reference. Else, few centuries later it would just turn out to be worse because the very same human tendency(which i mentioned) is also prevalent in politicians and will persist. Numerous attempts have been made to exclude the castes which have now prospered from reservation, but because of violence the actions have been taken back.
3) Its been 65 independent yrs now for our country. How many govt. schools are functioning properly? 80% of students dropout at class 10th. Lets become smart and identify the bottleneck instead of just providing reservations. I can't agree that 75% of our population needs a push. They just need opportunity. As of now the push u are talking of is given to those whose whole generation has been getting push and they just take it for granted.
4) When Reservation was implemented in India, it was done for 10 yrs. and in less than one year our constitution framers had understood that they have done a mistake. Because they found many caste groups claiming that they are backward. Till 1931, the same caste groups claimed of having become forward. Where's the flaw. The word caste is the biggest flaw. Reservation was implemented as one short term compensatory measure n not a permanent crutch. But it has taken shape of a permanent crutch. That precisely is what is wrong with this. Do u believe this will ever go off??? Ask yourself.
Lastly, I am not against affirmative action, but I am against reservation, not because someone is snatching my seat, but because it is not right way to uplift someone else. because the needy is not getting uplifted. because the motive behind this is altogether wrong. because the future along this path is the least desired. because it is against the philosophy of equality. Helping a poor child gain education will make me feel great. Leaving a seat in IIM for someone else who passed out of the same elite engg institution as me will ache me. Maybe one reason is because i couldn't go there, but maybe bigger reason is someone needy didn't go.
For the second part of your comment, I would just say that it is one easy but most ineffective way of doing that. we need to get to the root. Watering the branches won't help.
It wouldn't have mattered to me if it didn't have any consequences. But it is one never ending provision which will keep the society divided for ever.
u dint get my point bro! out of the 100 engg we produced...its only 7-8% has a class (and thats not me, statistics saying -even I read in rediff this as a comment)..so excpt we r english speaking nothins is selling much...the more we only depend on projects like inventory control of grocery shops of western coutries..we r more into diggin our own holes..as sooner any *cheaper* country wiil eat our share from the market. Now we don do any manufacturing as china, what we do is only *service*..do u think it gonna pull long? unless u think of the *quality* aspect very soon..it wont be a rosy story nemore..
interesting post, interesting comments. your ideas do definitely make one think in a different line - your reasons for supporting reservation are unique - but i still hold my views against reservation, simply for the fact that any priviledge offered to the lesser fortunate are usually lapped up by the un-deserving. also, i am all for reservation for primary education, even complete schooling, but by the end of schooldays, one has had enough oppurtunity to prove one's callibre, and no further reservation is justified.
of course, more can be said on the topic, but i will reserve my comments for a face-to-face discussion some day! adios.
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